Is Snape evil?

[Accio Padfoot! Refo]

I know I made this thread before, but when I did it first time, no one seemed to notice it, I really want to know the truth! Please tell me what you think, I know this post is terribly long, but what will I not give to know?!

Here we go..my head keeps turning to the evil and good when I think about him, I just can't decide where his loyality lays! I think he
is good..oh okay..I'll just start giving the points I have.

First of all, why he might be evil. That's for lot's of things...

* He was the one who told Voldemort about the prophecy, and a
person can't just change his mind that fast to be sorry for what he
did, especially that he hates James till the point of even
loathing his son to the furthest state, though Harry didn't really
know his parents.

* what he told Bella in Spinner's end was pretty plausible, and
was backed with strong reasons and facts.

* Voldemort is a master in Legilimency, so there is no way for
anyone to fool him, as for Dumbledore, his weakness point is
trusting people "blind-fully", so it is much easier to play a trick on Dumbledore, and we shall keep in mind, that the consequences
of betraying Dumbledore are much a "nothing" if compared to what
might happene when cheating on Voldemort.

* Snape killed Dumbledore and made the Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa to save Draco, but that's maybe to persuade Bella.

* Snape didn't finish the Occlumency lessons for Harry, though
he knows exactly how important they are for him, while ha could
have continued teaching him, and insulting him in the worst way
he could manage.

* He still call Voldemort the "Dark Lord" while only his follower do so.

* He's a Slytherin after all...but Slughorn was too...Err.. and
Peter was a Gryffindor (bound to be) which tells me..not to judge
by the house...

On the other hand...

* He saved Harry in the Quidditch match when Quirrel was about
to make him fall from his broom...but this could have been just
for the sake of paying the debt he owes to James for saving his
life first.

* In the Goblet of Fire, he showed his Dark Mark to Fudge (spelling?!) in the hospital wing when Harry came out from the
labyrinth, while he couldn't have bothered.

* Maybe Snape hides a very kind heart, but is too proud of
himself to show it, or probably too scared of the possiblity that
he might be weak with a kind heart, so maybe when he "tortures"
Harry he is merely trying to make him stronger...and.. probably
take Harry's head out of the fame he's living in...... but this
could be entirely wrong.

* When Harry told him in Umbridge's office that Voldemort "has
got Padfoot in the place where it is hidden", he went straight to
tell the Order and look for Harry in the forest...but..he couldn't
have done anything else, except not looking for Harry, they might
suspect him if he didn't tell them.

* Now..When Sanpe killed Dumbledore that was on Dumbledore's
own orders, that is, when Dumbledore said "please" it certainly
didn't mean that he wants help, no way..Dumbledore doesn't fear
death, he might have been forcing Snape to kill him and fulfill
his duty, and when Hagrid heard them arguing (S & DD) near the
Dark forest, Snape probably was saying that he can't do it..he
can't kill DD, and that hatred itching from Snape's face, when
doing the Aveda Kedavra, curse was a hatred for himself that he
was about to be the reason for the death of DD.

* Again, Snape might have joined the Death Eaters under
Dumbledore's orders (just like he said), so he wasn't lying at
Voldemort when saying so, that is, Legilimency would have shown
that Snape was saying the truth..Like Snape was saying the
truth..and..Err..kind of denying it. (my head started bussing!!
andI lost my ability to explain myslef! ).

* He tried to stop Quirril from reaching the Philosopher's
stone, while he could have took it himself, or at least didn't care
anyone else taking it.

* Every time a "Dark Lord" subject pops up, we see Snape's hand
"absent-mindedly" flying to cover his Dark Mark....but this can
be explained with lots of things...fear and hatred or maybe fear and respect, I just don't know.

* Snape might be very gifted at Occlumency that he can even
make up some scenes in his head and cover others, so that
Voldemort won't know the truth...or maybe he put all the
important memories in the Pensieve...or WHATEVER! he keeps driving
me mad! I CAN'T DECIDE!!

Oh one more thing...in the HBP...when Harry mentions the possiblity
that Snape is evil...(I can't remember the exact wording)
Dumbledore didn't answer promptly, instead..he seemed to be
making his mind about something, and that can hold a secret
here.

That's all I have now...or what I could come up with, still, I
believe he is NOT evil, I'll just hate him for the mean time, but
say he is good...what do you think?!?!

[Quidditch Queen]

Snape. Is. Evil.

I will not change my mind, I am sorry, Refo.

Live. Si. Epans. Napesay Isay Evilay!

Sorry, just had to do that. I'll do it properly now.

Snape is Evil.

[nutz4hpotter6]

Refo I feel the same way you do about Snape. I think there is more to him then meets the eye. I think Snape is very good at Occlumency so he could hide his mind from both Voldemort and Dumbledore. If you think about the end of the Half Blood Prince book when the Death Eaters, Snape and Draco are leaving all Snape kept doind was telling Harry he had to learn non verbal spells. He didn't say it too nicely but he was still telling him what he needed to learn. Harry will never beable to defeat V. if he doesn't learn to control his temper.

I think Snape is a person who grew up only seeing evil. I think he is afraid that if he shows a kind heart people will think he is weak. Snape is a very confusing character and I just think he is someone who is out for himself at times but then others I think he could have a heart.

WE will know in about 155 days and counting.

I was just reading an article about Dan and he mentions that JK came to the set of the OotP film. He asked why she was there and she said she needed a break from the book. Dumbledore was giving her trouble. He asks isn't Dumbledore dead? She says yes but it is more complicated then that. Just some food for thought.

I think Dumbledore will explain alot about Snape to Harry to help him. I am sorry if this is long but I am always thinking about these books more often then I should. I think I will start reading them again.

[Drajl]

What if Dumbledore accaully wanted to be killed, I mean whouldn't his hand be hurting, and he's old. What if it was a beg? What if he knew of the plot all along, and Snape told him?

[nutz4hpotter6]

That is what we don't know. We keep speculating that it is possible. I think Snape is good and bad. I trust and don't trust him. I will be re-reading this book again hopefully starting this weekend. Maybe I will be able to learn some new things.

I don't nececcarily think that Dumbledore was old that he wanted to die. I think the burned hand is what made him weak. Plus he had just drank a poison or potion that I think was killing him.

Dumbledore knows alot more then we give him credit for. He is the best wizard of his time.

[Accio Padfoot! Refo]

*sigh*
It's terribly confusing.
It could be that he was begging, though am not entirely happy with this, that's not Dumbledore, but after a discussion I've been to, I need to think about that again.

[nutz4hpotter6]

I think he was pleading with Snape because he knew Snape didn't want to do it but he knew that it had to be done. I know that doesn't sound like him but he knows he was dieing from the potion he drank earlier.

[weasleyfan]

I hope he's good, but you have to admit he is fun to hate

[nutz4hpotter6]

Yes he is fun to hate. I just started re-reading HBP. I just finished Spinner's End. Now I highlight my books so I can try to take notes and things as I am reading. I have a few things that I have always wondered about. Forgive me if this takes too long. Now I am having trouble remembering what I wanted to say.

One part that has always peaked my interest is that he answered all of Bella's questions. It is the way that he answers that can tell us stuff. I love the part where he asks Bella a Question "Do you really think that the DArk Lord has not asked me each and everyone of those questions. And do you really think that, had I not been able to give satisfactory answers,I would be sitting here talking to you?"
When I first read that paragraph I felt oh he is evil. But then he goes on to say to Bella that you think I fooled the Dark Lord, the greatest wizard, the most accomplished Legilimens the world has ever seen. I think that statement is made so that we will think He can't lie and get away with it. I think we are wrong to assume that because he was teaching Harry Occlumency in OotP because he is just as accomplished at that.

Then when they go on to answer the question about getting in between the Dark Lord and the Sorcerer's Stone he says "I deeply regret that he did not trust me." He was hurt that V didn't reveal himself to Snape when he was living in Quirrell.

Here is another excerpt from the book:
"If Draco succeeds," said Snape, still looking away from her, "he will be honored above all others." Prior to that Cissy is talking about this being vengeance for Lucius's mistake. After she says that Snape says nothing. He looked away from the sight of her tears as though they were indecent.

Now about that whole part. I'm not sure as to why he can't look at her while she is crying. Is it because it reminds him of his mother and the pain she went through. That would show his softer side. Now the part where he talks about Draco being honored above all if he succeeds. I think we could interperet this that Snape wants to be honored above all and he is mad that he won't be.

Also stated in this chapter is that V intends for Snape to do it if Draco cannot.

Now when they do the unbreakable vow. The last thing that is stated during the ceremony that he agrees too is that he will carry out the deed if Draco can not. Just before that is said Snape's hand twitched within hers(Cissy), but he did not draw away. Does that mean that he was unsure about it? Was he scared? There was a moment's silence before he said I will.

Why is that? I have always wondered about that part especially.

I think there are so many clues in this chapter but can be interpert differently. I also noticed that alot of the sentences are cut off which is a sign of something important.
I hope this post made sense and sorry it is so long.

[weasleyfan]

Not too long~ I hope he's not an evil person but, I don't know all ends point to him being as such... Yes he good at lying and V trusts him (if he really trusts anybody no adays). So I guess he could be evil in the end. I just hate that he killed the only father like figure that Harry ever really knew... CONLUSION~ That's the main reason why I hate him, lol

[nutz4hpotter6]

I know that is what makes us hate him but he did it because of the unbreakable vow. He flinched during the ceremony. Why? Because he didn't want to do wha he would have to do. Because he cares for Dumbledore. I don't know. Sometimes when I read it I think he is bad and evil and then other times I think he is pretending to be.

[weasleyfan]

Agreed, I wish he would come out with it, it so hard guessing all the time.

My birthday is in 5, (count em, 1-2-3-4-5) days (17, I'm excited) (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

[nutz4hpotter6]

It is hard trying to figure him out. I was talking this weekend with my daughter's volleyball coaches wife about Snape. The Chapter Spinners End makes me think he is hiding info from both Dumbledore and Voldemort. I am beginning to think that he is just out for himself.



The following info is from another HP site that someone posted. I found it very interesting and since I just finished that book I will be checking and reading that part again. Tell me what you guys think.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was re-reading hp 6 and I read the part about Trelawney telling Harry that snape was listening at the door, and I found some things that just didn't make any sense...

If Snape only heard the first half of the prophecy, why does Trelawney remember this?!
We learned in book 3 that Trelawney can't remember doing (real) predictions, she can't remember anything she says, as well as anything that happens while she does one. If Snape heard the first half, why does she know this, she was in a trance!!

So what did happen?
Trelawney could remember Snape being caught so Snape must have heard the entire prophecy. But Dumbledore told Harry that Snape told Voldemort everything he knew about the prophecy... which was the first half.
I think Dumbledore lied to Harry, because he knows that Harry is a diseaster in Occlumecy and if he'd tell Harry the truth, there'd be a chance that Voldymort would find out that Snape didn't tell him the entire prophecy.
So Snape must have cooperated with Dumbeldore.
_________________

[Mays]

I always thought something was queer about the version of the story. How can Trelawny see Snape if he only heard the first part before being caught? I assumed that the barman caught him halfway through eavesdropping, & wanted to escort him outside, but Snape started a commotion outside the door, which would stop him from hearing the rest of the prophecy, & would not press Dumbledor to go see what's happening outside due to the facts that noise would distract anyone from hearing what's inside, & that what's happening in front of him is much more important.

I think he checked what was happening outside after Trelawny came back from her trance, allowing her to see what had happenened.



Now, this os for Refo's first post.

I'll give my opinion to every point you suggested by the order you used.

*Hating someone does not mean wanting them dead. Though I'd say he'd have liked to see the marauders dead (As he thinks they once plotted his own muder.). & Voldemort could have "presuaded" him to tell him. He must be able to tell if some Deatheater of his (Especially such a remarkable one) has some bad new in his head. & anyway, if you throw aside who's right & who's wrong, if you work for someone & hear such a prophecy about him, wouldn't you go tell him immediately? But I won't ever believe that he just regretted being the reason of the Potter's death. Unless there's a HUGE twist. He thinks James once wanted to kill him. Nasty as he is, he won't really "see the light" after his death. *rolls eyes*

*Yes, I totally agree. One could not argue with Snape about the reasons he gave to Bellatrix. I never saw any one who knows how to use words to his advantage better than him.

*Sigh, as much as I'd like to disagree, I can't. I don;t think Dumbledore would kill a spy, even if he was as bad as Avery or Malfoy ir something. On the other hand, Voldemort won;t even hesitate to kill him on the spot. But you ca'/t say that Dumbledore trusts people blindly. He as a skilled Legilimence too, & I think someone as deeply involved as Snape must have been "scanned" at least once.

*No. I belive the Umbreakable vow was true. I think he did the unbreakable vow to Assist Draco in killing Dumbledore. If his death was prearranged, why wouldn't he vow to help Draco?

*I believe that whereever his loyalties were, to Dumbledore, to Voldemort, Even if it was his ambition to build an army of himslef & assign Harry First Commandor to conquer the Horned Snorkacks or whatever they're called, He'd have never completed teaching him Occlumency after catching him redhanded watching Younger Snape being tormented & utterly humilliated by Harry's father's little gang. I believe it's a touchy subject to him, as he seems to detest weekness.

*It might be out of habbit. As he is in on DE meetings, he should get used to calling Voldemort by that.

*I agree. Being a Slytherin means you're ambitious & cunning, not a perverted DeathEater wanting to erase muggle-borns on earth.

* I believe that was just for the peace of his mind. He didn't want to stay in dept to James Potter, the man who he always hated.

*Yes, I found him very convincing in that scene. But maybe he was just cementing his position in front of Voldemort. I would have done a similar thing if I was trying to fool someone. Little things can help make any stpry plausible.

*HAHAHA! SNAPE LOVES KITTENS!

Sorry, couldn;t resist. HAHA!

But I don't think he's in any way trying to make Harry "stronger". He;s just getting his revenge on James & the days of bullying.

*No, I believe he could have got away with it easily. He could have said he thought Harry was just making a scene for the sake of it or something.

*We talking about this before, & my theory is the same as yours, so I won't comment.

*That point made absolutely no sense, dear.

*He did it because he was under Dumbledore supervision. He had no idea the Dark Lord had risen again, so, as one of the many protectors of the stone, he must try to stop Quirrel.

*That can be a reflexive move, simply. Un-selfconsiously touching the mark that supposedly doomed him to a life-time service to someone must happen when that someone's name is mentioned. Though, I'd have thought Snape was more collected than to let such a vulnerable sign appear.

I think Dumbledore was thinking about whatever happened that made him know Snape is trustworthy.

[weasleyfan]

Hum, good points, I'm gonna have to re-read those parts before I make my real opinion of Snape, I guess!